Perish the thought! I would certainly be ok with a Rogue Drone line that was drones, drones and more drones.

Dunno, I always tried to fly my Rattlesnake with as much gank and as little gank as possible.
Based on my previous times with a CNR, it shouldn't be really worse.
TP is now 5 seconds, and we have the LMJD.

Heck, for a time I had a mission alt, ran a CNR with the Rattlesnake (back when there was no microdrive and Tp was 10 seconds), this will be much easier!

Now FITTING it properly, that will be a game of tradeoffs...
...that I - in my masochistic ways - am almost looking forward to!
Though I would like to do so without a CPU rig/module.

Used an Apoc to have 5 unbonused missiles, Rattler would have made cruise go faster.

Those numbers were with Rigors for each of them.

I don't really plan to shoot frigates with missiles at all, it's non-orbiting cruisers that make me hesitate, some get more than half the dps of speedtanked even with rigors and TPs helping me.
About all of 400 dps (after reload, almost 600 without) from normal HMs launched from a RHML against half of the 500 dps of the Cruise...

Cruise is probably still the way to go.
Or I can swap based on the ratio of Cruisers against Battleships in the mission.

I'm not sure if losing the thermic/kinetic missile damage bonus is even an option - I'm just throwing it out there. On Tuesday we'll be able to run a pair of Geckos that will actually do more damage with the current iteration of the Rattlesnake than the proposed one, which seems a tad odd (3.0 equivalent drones vs. 2.75 drones due to the reduction in bandwidth). Especially since the Gecko seems custom-designed with the Rattlesnake in-mind. As for the application of drone damage to all drones and a bump to the size of the drone bay, I don't think either are very realistic.

Yep so currently:

Light , Medium, Heavy and Sentry = 5 * 1.5 = 7.5 equivalent unbonused drones DPS



After patch:

Heavy and Sentry = 2 * 3.75 = 7.5 equivalent unbonused drones DPS (no change)

Light , Medium = 5 * 1.0 = 5.0 equivalent unbonused drones (33% nerf)


Made up for by 38 cap (WTF? why bother)
Extra launcher and 50% missile damage but losing missile velocity bonus


PLUS needs to be taken in context of other drone and module changes

RATTLESNAKE
Gallente Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage
Caldari Battleship Bonus: 4% bonus to all shield resistances
Role Bonus: 275% bonus to heavy drone damage, velocity and tracking

So why not just eliminate the sentry drone bonus and expand on the heavy drone bonus? Don't we already have enough hulls that really cover sentry drones and do a more effective job?

Just replying addressing a different point

If this had been CCP rises original proposal. Sentry users would have been shocked.... Initially.

Once they realised they gained all of the benefits, and also gained the ability not to be locked in place nursemaiding their sentries, then the ship in testing and rollout would prove very popular and desirable to a great many players.We can argue about whether adding an extra 20% over this, in exchange for giving up sentries is a fair point, but the main idea is excellent.

It would be an excellent Pirate ship, different from anything else, just as the other pirate ships are different to everything else.

So plus about 8 million for your suggestion, It is a clever, imaginative solution to many peoples issues, as well as my own.

(People may have concerns as to the loss of Ewar drones. i can understand that. But hopefully when the ewar rebalance comes to modules and drones too that can be taken into account.)

The snake has 93.75% of the dps of a golem without including drone dps.

It really just depends on what lows you want to fit.

I will say that High DPS is the new paradigm for this ship. The only real problem with what they are doing is in not raising the DPS higher on the drones.

I don't see why.

I will grant you that with the way drone assist has evolved into use, the full 500% bonus the snake deserves would be a poor idea. a 400% bonus would be appropriate, or even the 275% they have now on sentries, and a 500% bonus on Heavies.

Working the HP bonus up separately from the DPS bonus is an option as well, as is done on the Gallente Frigates.

It is not as bad as it would seem. While the drones dont have all that poor base sensor strength, there is no way to raise it. As there are now only two drones, or just one with a Geckho, you can easily counter the increased DPS with ecm. The Snake gets no tracking or range on the hull to make Gardes effective at medium ranges, so reaching out with their DPS will be costly.

Even with announced changes this summer drones will continue to have a poor selection of rigs, and no implants or boosters to push their performance up, so 3 DDA and maybe a sentry damage rig is it.

With the split system it has poor efficiency in fitting, with tank missiles and drones all competing for resources.

[Test, Test]

5x Cruise Missile Launcher II (Scourge Fury Cruise Missile)
Drone Link Augmentor II

2x Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Large Micro Jump Drive
Gist A-Type Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II

3x Drone Damage Amplifier II
2x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II

Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I
2x Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II

2x Garde II


1571 DPS
819 DPS from missiles.
751 DPS from gardes
334 DPS omni tank

If you use ogres, Total DPS is 1631 with 793 DPS from drones
Edit, Put wrong rigs on the fit Derp

SNI gets 814 DPS with Explosive fury, 3 CNBCUs and 2 T2 BCUs So the snake still has 400 more DPS than the SNI
Besides, It would most likely be used in Caldari/gallente space where they are shooting the resist hole.

This forum post has the math from a Fleet Phoon with the same rigs. My Snake fit would be between the standard and drone Phoon fleets in his posts.
Damage application agaisnt frigs would be the lowest, But you use sentrys to pop them at range anyways.
I will admit Id probably be using Curators for my drones vs guristas/serp. I was just throwing a fit together to show the potential DPS

Raven has no issues getting its damage down, the rattle wont either.

Its also not a pure droneboat.

You seriously just compared the new rattle with a t1 battlecruiser and have the nerve to say I gave a non-statement...


People are saying that cruise missiles wont work, fact is that ravens, scorps and phoons have zero issues with aplying damage with cruise missiles.

Right so now we can drop this none argument of the rattle not being able to apply its significant firepower.

You were talking about the sig and speed which look like you were trying to say the rattle would not be applying most of its damage.There have been others throughout this thread who seem to think the rattle wont be able to apply the bulk of its damage either from cruise or heavy drones.

You dont need drone tracking, heavies will track frigates well enough. Before the BS balance pass my mega's heavy drones did just fine vs cruisers in pvp. Also a mjd is not just something for getting into snipe range, my raven uses rhml and only uses the mjd to get to gates/objectives. Equally, you dont need to have two tp to be effective.

You can get more firepower than that out of it. It will out damage just about any subcap.

Projecting that much firepower out to 100km is not something this game needs.

Show me the vindi with 100km blasters.

Currently, the new rattle will have very good firepower out to just shy of 80km. That is amazingly good.

You honestly think blasters will go out to 100km on a vindi?

Also tracking isnt much of an issue at longer ranges.

You can, but the rattle can spit out more up to 80km.

Am I seeing this correctly, the Rattle goes from having 7.5 effective Ogres to having 5.5?
I get that it's getting an extra launcher and some missile damage, but it's not getting the PG to handle an extra launcher.

I hope the Rattle gets tweaked a bit more, otherwise the only people going to use them are those that can only pvp by assisting their sentries to someone.

Giving the rattle the extra utility high would mean it would be able to project its massive firepower to 100km. As it stands only the missiles will reach 100km. That much firepower out to that range is just too much.

CPU and PG are things we can only fiddle with when they land on sisi. We need to wait for now but it likely does need a bit more room to take the extra launcher into account.

Why yes they are already on the first page and have been since before we discovered the full meaning of the proposal.
That is just one of the reasons that some want CCP to revisit this ship and spend a little time re-evaluating it.

EDIT: As to torps, well, niche uses possibly, otherwise, not so much.

Not so much an individual "hog" but changes to the number of launchers and it becoming necessary to alter rigs and modules to take account is really not going to have no effect is it?

Possibly CCP Rise might have realised that if he was able to spend more time considering his changes?

But if you fit faction and deadspace, I am sure there will be suitable fits.

No wonder the Gankers are somewhat excited.

The rigs are very hungry on CPU. The Damage mods to drone and ballistic are also hungry, changing the shields to take account of changes, hungry, extra launcher, hungry. Basically it turns a ship with low/moderate CPU needs into one that to get a decent fit for missiles and drones just cannot fit them, with a tank too.

Yes one can, but the requirement for faction and other bling makes it a Gank magnet.
And we all know that most will just try to maximise EFT DPS, and minimal tank.

Hence why some are super excited, not as a ship but as a target.

Agreed, there should be compromises.

I have tried and failed to find a reasonable fit, that gives reasonable tank, reasonable damage application, reasonable missile damage, reasonable drone range, and reasonable drone damage. At a sane cost of fitting.
Not great, not overpowered, something that would make the rattlesnake a good ship to fly for PvE as well as PvP.

By turning it into a gank magnet , I can achieve that, just.
Not overpowered, reasonable.

If you are able to discover one, I personally would love to see it, and that will put to rest forever the claims that it is overpowered.

Damage application of cruise missiles is excellent.

He can't not lie.

He staked out a position entirely devoid of facts, and now unless he backs down from it he can't get out of it.

Just for the record, folks. Sentries track NPCs just fine. And the new Rattlesnake loses ZERO efficacy in PvE compared to it's present form. If you want to fit it like you would before, with 4 launchers and 2 drone range amps instead of using the new 5th launcher, the only change will be that your sentries don't die as easily, and you have 50% more missile damage.

Citadel cruise missiles will hammer cruisers. What exactly makes you think cruise missiles, the most widely used weapon in level 4 missions, are unable to land their damage?

You get more drone flights in the rattle than any other battleships aside from the dedicated droneboats.

realistically you would have a flight of heavies, a flight of sentries and then a bunch of lights with a flight od salvagers if you want. You dont need any more for pve.

In pvp you would have the same but I would replace the salvagers with a flight of light armour drones.

Ships like the domi.

The rattle is a mix of missiles and drones.

Close range work.

You forgot the geddon.

Geddon has no weapon damage bonus, and is therefore a Dedicated drone boat.

Remind us what the damage bonus is for the geddon.

It has two bonuses to its missiles, one for projection and one for application.

On paper they arent. But they are in practice.

Explosion radius helps apply damage better - especially if your target is moving faster than the missile explosion velocity.

Still weapon bonuses.

Nester isn't a droneboat.

The Nester is a RR specialist with lasers and drones with advanced probing abilities. Its far from a dedicated droneboat.

Personally, they serve very different roles. The Mordu line really isn't for PvE in any real way, as most of the bonuses they have are focused toward PvP.

Scram range and missile velocity are both totally irrelevant in PvE, so it's really down to the cool factor of their excellent appearance.

Whilst none of the Snake's bonuses are wasted in regards to using them to shoot rats.

They should re-re-do the Snake into a dedicated drone boat now that we have a dedicated missile boat.

Lin you are not understanding this, Berserkers Or the gecko will be going almost the same speed as a medium would with a Drone nav. They WILL keep up with mediums and will kill the target faster.


Edit. Something like this
[Rattlesnake, New Setup 1]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Drone Navigation Computer II
Drone Navigation Computer II
100MN Microwarpdrive I
Large Shield Extender II
Shield Recharger II

Cruise Missile Launcher II,
Cruise Missile Launcher II,
Cruise Missile Launcher II,
Cruise Missile Launcher II,
Cruise Missile Launcher II,
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Core Defense Field Purger I
Large Core Defense Field Purger I
Large Core Defense Field Purger I

Berserker II x2
Gecko x1
It has 340 DPS tank, is stable with the MWD off, and has 1621 DPS with ogres. Ogres would go 2.4km/s Gecko 3.7km/s same for berserkers
Edit wrong missiles derp

I've just been having another play around on Sisi with the Guristas ships.

Looking at the specs on the new Faction Drone mods, I'm not sure they will be worth the prices (initially at least) people will ask for them.
Faction Drone Damage Amplifier 0.8% better than T2. Unless they are cheap may not be worth the effort

Sentient Omni Tracking Enhancer at 0.5% better than T2 Omni and having to drop a damage mod for it? Yeah not sure about that, especially as the available versions, Sentient and Officer, will likely have hefty prices attached. Sentient mods could be a buff for drone regions, although the attributes of the modules is likely to see low prices - or a market full of so-so mods no-one is prepared to pay the high price of.

I've never seen an Officer drone upgrade mod on a market so the extra attributes offered (the best of which are pretty good) will be so expensive as to only be affordable by the richest and be fit to Shield Supers. It is a nice buff to shield supers, as long as drop rates are there to make them available

I seem to remember drone interfacing being reduced from 20% per level to 10% per level in summer patch.

That would make for a very significant reduction if that is in the current sisi build.

And makes me sad. Since I already have that one at 5.

As usual epicurus completely ignores anything to do with the Super Drone concept.

The drone weapon system is, all things considered, really overpowered. It can have damage application at any size level, unlike any and every other battleship weapon platform. It can also have selectable damage, and is immune to most ewar and neuts as well.

To counterbalance this, drones have two weak points.

Some of them have a travel time, and they can be destroyed.

But the Super Drone mechanic is a huge step in mitigating one of those weaknesses with the enormous hitpoint bonus. That cannot, and must not come without a cost.

In the Rattlesnake, that cost is light and medium drone bonuses.

My numbers showed missiles making up fully 3/5ths of the rattlesnake damage now. Hardly seems even.

That... that's your argument? That's the best you can come up with to disguise your real complaint of "I hate change waaaaah!"?

No one can take you seriously.

How about you grow a pair, and post this fit of yours that you are so eager to defend.

The rattlesnake has amazing bonused Guristas Drone bonuses, the most powerful subcap drone system in the game. Sounded so good and exciting at Fanfest.
Hang on..... Where'd that go?

No.
Just No.

Explain WHY there must be something better than a Dominix at drones. Something has to be best, so why not the Dominix? Why MUST the pirate BS be the best at drones?

As a ship that rewards high SP the rattlesnake is pretty perfect right now. If you only have one weapon system it uses trained up properly, you can fly it like you would either a pure drone boat or a pure missile ship, working your way back to a 50/50 hybrid as your other skills are perfected. *THIS* is unique and of value.

Now if you want to talk about split weapons lets go to another thread and discuss the mess that is a PvE dragoon with 3 weapon systems, one of which is not even used by your ship's race. (please for the love of all, don't tell me you put lasers on it)

The only complaint one can have is that the missile bonus is on the gallente battleship skill, but perhaps if you are transitioning from a navy raven or navy scorp you can just suck it up and blow the couple days to get Gal BS 4 before you switch.

They've been trying to reduce the number of drones deployed (and have been doing so) for years. The Domi used to deploy 15 drones. Drone interfacing used to give extra drones in space, rather than a damage bonus, and the Domi's current damage bonus used to be a 1 extra drone per level of Gallente battleship.

Besides, what you are asking for is a mini-carrier. Outside of high-sec, why not use a carrier? A carrier is only slightly more expensive than a pirate BS & has much more EHP & utility.

If it's effective drones, you are buffing drone assist. Either way, he is wanting carrier level drone firepower on a BS. At that point, why not get a carrier?

A Carrier puts out exactly twice the firepower of a Domi. (Drones only.) 25% Bonus to drones on top of a Domi's bonuses + 4 unbonused launchers, and you're already right next to carrier level firepower.

The point is, outside of high-sec, and a few wormhole applications, a carrier does that job at the nearly the same price & has massively more utility & EHP to boot.

So? Why shouldn't a Drone user have to train another weapon system? Its clearly in the design of Battleships that they will have the support of drones. So why should an Amarr Laser boat need to use drones to maximize DPS? Why should it be "needed" atleast in theory to carry a set of light drones on a battleship to clean off frigates that get under your guns and/or do not get satisfactory damage application from your large missiles?

You are asking for Drones to not only be unique, but better than any other battleship class weapon system in not needing a second weapon system in theory.

and yes I know in practice a MJD and 100KM range on your guns means frigates go away as fast as your guns cycle. Still doesn't remove the theory that battleships have a dead zone needing to be covered by their own drones. And I'm pretty sure we can all agree we don't want large class short range guns (pulse, blasters, autocannon) to work just fine on close range orbiting frigates.

In fact, it's already there in the TFI. The TFI is fine, as you can't apply that damage without making major fitting concessions. (2 slot tank on many TFI fits.)

On the RS it will be there at the DPS coming at a cost of tank, and with trade-offs to maximize application. Dual weapon boats, while quite useful, don't come without trade-offs. (I love my Typhoon Fleet Issue... )

A single system drone boat would not have to use target painters, missiles rigs, two sets of weapon upgrades, etc. to apply it's full damage. A dual weapon system boat must, leaving not much room on the hull for a tank.

The point is that we already have a drone ship which gives the DPS from drones he's looking for. It's called a carrier. It's price point is similar to a pirate faction BS. The role is already covered.

If they remove the ability of carriers to fit normal drones, then sure, they need to fill that role & by all means, introduce a new ship to fill it. Until then, it's pointless, outside of high-sec mission running.

No, not really. My original point is that for nearly the same cost of a hypothetical drone faction BS (Rattler or a new one), you can have a carrier which would have slightly superior firepower & massively superior tank & accomplish the exact role you are looking for, outside of high sec.

I don't see the point. If CCP does, great. They might add it. As they've gone the other direction, I don't think they see the point either.

LOL! Dreads break 10K. There is a massive difference in DPS between a BS & a Dread. Not much of one between a BS and a carrier.

If they create a pure drone faction BS, great. I don't think it's necessary, and I like the new Rattler the way it is, but I wouldn't be actually bothered. Enough people say they want one, I suppose.

Anyway, that's enough for me... There is no point in this discussion, as you want something that I consider pointless, and I doubt either of us will change our minds. I hope you get your drone BS, for what its worth.

Edit: Fixed quote.

Mynnna's latest blog post suggests such a thing. CCP has been working towards a rewrite of the basic code behind EVE. That basic code being in the state it currently is part of what holds them back with POS and drone reworks.

So that's not impossible that it's coming "soon".

And anyway, the Rattlesnake is not going to be upgraded into the Dominix 2.0, with double the drone dps. And if people can't see why that is a bad idea, they're either beyond redemption as players or blatantly dishonest.

This is pre-patch (today) while using a Gnosis with T2 links. Missile skills at IV or V, perfect drone and tanking skills. Battleship skills only at III/IV Gal/Cal.

With these skills post-patch we get 20% more drone DPS and 40% more missile DPS + 1 extra hardpoint

Drones: 521 dps ---> 625 dps
Missiles: 230 dps --> 402 dps

Total: 750 dps --> 1027 dps

Post-patch this Rattler fit does 1027dps, tanks 1405dps, buffers 100k EHP, and sustains 15 minutes of capacitor with everything active. It is fit with a propulsion mod (off) and the deadspace modules both cost just 50m or so each.
With max skills and a T3 booster the numbers become absurd, and go beyond reason if you plug in the right set in implants slots 1-5.


I am thus largely confused why anyone is disappointed with the Rattle changes.

Why does everyone keep acting like missile application is horrendous? Or is this because it can't use bonused medium/lights to kill mission rats? Surely you can just mjd away and blap them with gardes?

The new Rattler is a complete monster when you consider the tank/gank it puts out in the right circumstances. Might be bad at lvl4's though? But lets be honest, lvl 4's already have an entire class of lolships designed for them (Marauders) they don't need the pirate BS's too.

How does a bs burn at 300m/s o.o

I'm quite sure cruise missiles hit BC's perfectly with one TP.. So they should do fine against bs? Unless possibly if you're talking fury, i didn't check the application on fury.. But honestly you can never really use high damage ammo against anything thats not webbed/tped on any weapon system.. I'd think that with the Rattlers manly inate tank you could put a lot of midslots into application and have it in spades.

Meanwhile, Sentry drones are still hilariously overpowered, Super Drone or otherwise. In fact Super Drone Sentries are almost inarguably even more powerful.

The super drones mean that you need all of 50m3 for a set of main drones so you can carry 4 sets of mains (read heavy/sentry) and a set of lights, or three sets of mains, and three lights, or 3 mains a medium and a light etc.
With 400m3 you got three sets of mains, and a set of lights...
THIS IS STILL A BUFF again, you have more options that allow basically better flexibility.

Thought it was 225.....read the - apparently

Eitherway, considering what you are going to be dropping its identical, unless you really much carry three sets of unbonused mediums for god only knows what reason.

Why do you keep arguing with people who clearly have no idea what they are talking about and have never actually pvped like their ideas on Balance have any value?

And it is - aside from the fitting it is better in every way. The only thing keeping fleet typhoons from blotting out the sun in PvE-land is the wafter-thin-balls-of-steel-kill-or-be-killed-tankGäó. A rattlesnake tanks like a BOSS and giving it those DPS levels means that, actually, the passive regen alone (on an ACTIVE fit) is sufficient.

But...not many people seem to believe the ferocity of said fleet typhoon and it is the only frame of reference here. All skills V, no implants and the weakest sentries and it'll still lay down 1300+ DPS out to lock range - this thing will two shot low bounty battleships. A rattlesnake is there, or thereabouts but with at least twice the tank.


Edit: If you're semi afking it - you cant really complain in the context of it being pirate and special. Nothing wrong with a bit of multiboxing/background missioning - but you can't complain about the performance when you're not trying

Mind sharing the fits you tried? trying to deiced on my final fit ill use
Edit, My possible Fit

It is designed to be already "balanced". BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT its not

SHHH, We must make it known it is bad, Dont give CCP the wrong idea

Try something like my edit.
My current Snake is similar but with T2 BCUs and only one DLA. The missiles apply most of their DPS, though the drones only reach out to 80 KM, So you dont need the SeBo THough i do wish i had the range of yours

Dual Rigors help with the Speed issue, though i do live out in caldrai space so i get Angels abit less often than Min space.
You really only need a 2 or 3 slot tank for most L4s. So the Cap booster and MJD can be switched out to preferences.
As for the Omnis, they let me use Gardes at longer range for more DPS ( Guristas/Serp missions) Or a Tracking script for when they get close.

I thought there was a bigger bonus on the Omni for range, Guess im thinking of the old passive omnis.

Anyways, This is my idea for Damsel. 2nd Omni will have a Tracking script. Has 630 DPS tank for 3 minutes. It should kill everything fast enough that you dont need to be cap stable. Though Cap booster instead of the 2nd Omni would be good if you messed up.
BTW, Can you link where you got your EFT modifications, Mine doesnt seem to have the faction DDAs

It's working as intended... lol

There aren't any.

Grab yourself a few gecko drones, they work rather well vs smaller targets and on the rattle they are like launching a little cruiser in terms of tank.

@Ameiz Keram: I posted a fit on battleclinic in an attempt to retain some semblance of a Rattlesnake L4 mission sniper,

Cabal Kodiak

I've hit Angel battleships orbiting at 15ish km with Bouncers without having to resort to Tracking Scripts.

Tis true. Try it on Singularity.

Because I'm TESTING the fit, man. I'm not trying to own missions on test server.

This ship is being redesigned to support missiles as its primary damage source.

Please do not compare me to anyone else,I am referring to people who run missions, I am not saying it is a "bad" ship, for some missions, I will keep it for, those it does well., for missions with a large number of fast rats, the RNI has the abilities to clear them as they approach, and still kill them in close (a little slow but acceptable) with precisions, that does not work with the Rattlesnake.
Kill them with bouncers on approach or you are really out of luck. The old Rattlesnake had this in balance and capabilities. it did this well
Dominix or RNI are the two battleship choices, one T1 one Navy,
The pirate vessel is inferior, not bad just inferior.
One does not expect a superior product to be inferior.

And remember, not everyone has our skills, some will really suffer here.

1) You've ignored my post and I do not believe I've butted heads with you in the thread and my post was to try and assist you. I strongly suspecct you are not getting the most from the ship down to fitting/misconception issues. I mean no offence.
2) You're being massively melodramatic.
3) Precisions cruises - get the skills to use them. Then wonder what the heck you were worried about.
4) Seriously - why do spider drones bother you? It's a SENTRY boat they web (they dont even scram and they do 0 DPS). It's not like it's a tengu and speed is life. You're already stationary!

Ok lets take this stupidity in small bites.

Yes I know I can shoot spider drones with anything.
There are more small fast rats than spider drones.
Yes I know other ships can shoot them.
Yes I know there are different drones.
Yes All the little things that people pick out to try to dismiss concerns are not actually the important part.

So pay attention now.

The rattlesnake is less "pleasurable" " efficient" and " balanced" than before.

It now rewards micromanagement and is an inferior choice to the Caldari Navy Raven or the Dominix. In the area where it previously had the most use, which was in level 4 missions and anomalies

It certainly can still do them, it is not suddenly a bad ship. it can do more overall dps under certain circumstances. None of that is in dispute.

If that is what CCP want, then they have achieved their goal.

It is now a poorer ship after the rebalance in many ways, and better in a few.

Good troll, I almost bit.

hehe so u have massive drone BATTLESHIP with 400m3 bay and u fly with 1 drone like a girl walking with a pet :(


LOL

In the context of level 4s, after fiddling with the Rattlesnake some more on Sisi:

• 2.0 AU/s is sloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow. And you can't use warp speed rigs or the implant #6 for warp speed.
• Ogre IIs are sloooooooooooooow. Use anything that's faster when killing lights. Especially against Serp frigates which like to orbit at 10+km.
• Missiles are sloooooooooooooow, i.e. volley counting sucks (micromanagement or lose DPS.)
• Sentries are sloooooooooooooooow. It's really annoying not to have drones out while you're moving to an acceleration gate which isn't that far away to begin with.
• Rattlesnake is sloooooooooooooooooow. See previous.
• Heavy drones require micromanagement since they tend to prefer non-frigate targets and/or whatever you're currently attacking. Ditto for sentries to a lesser degree. But at least sentries can't wander off.
• Can only lock 7 targets. Which becomes a noticeable annoyance since you need to keep many targets locked in order to micromanage drone targets. Heavy drones tend to kill the frigates quickly, and it takes forever to lock a frigate, which makes it difficult to keep enough frigates locked to keep the heavies from being idle or from wandering off.
• Locking is slooooooooooooooooooooow, which is compounded by being limited to 7 targets.
• Tank is great.
• Needs more CPU. Fitting is a pain even if you have perfect fitting skills.
• Fitting a Rattlesnake can be sloooooooooooooooooow, because adding a prop mod requires non-trivial thinking to make it fit.
• Ammo swapping is slooooooooooooooooooooow. Having to downgrade to T1 ammo to help kill frigate swarms faster was tedious.
• No tractor beam is sloooooooooooooooooooow. Seriously, not having a utility high is painful.
• Also, since when did level 4s have so many darn frigates?
• Did I mention the tank was great? For a lot of missions the cap booster is superfluous.

tl;dr - I was considering getting a 1500+ DPS Rattlesnake, but after the slow warp speed, missile micromanagement, drone micromanagement, target locking micromanagement, and jumping through fitting hoops, the Rattlesnake is dead to me.

So, thumbs up or thumbs down on the new Rattlesnake?

and blowing up battleships quickly and easily with torpedoes.

You fail to comprehend that you can't fit cruises and still be able to effectively deal with fast frigates and cruisers. Previously we had bonused light and medium drones for that.

You aren't even addressing the argument correctly, just comparing apples to oranges.

You earlier said that if you fit a Rattlesnake for a passive fit, that you are playing it wrong.

Rattlesnake is the best battleship for passive tanking. Anyone who says you are wrong to fit it for passive tanking clearly doesn't know what the they are talking about.


Nobody was talking about maxing the output of 2 weapon systems. Your comment about context is totally misplaced.

think before you post.

The price of the Rattlesnake just keeps going down folks. That speculation bubble has burst and It has dropped quite a lot since the OP in this thread and has dropped even more so now with the release of Koronos. It keeps going down as we speak.

The market has spoken. The clowns were wrong.

1700+ DPS close, just shy of 1500 long, 5.06 AU/s. Stoicfaux I might be able to give your mach a run for its money afterall

just admit you are wrong instead of making baseless ad hominem attacks.

you obviously can't argue. You ****** up. you thuoght wrong. Deal with it and move on like a man instead of embarrassing yourself even further.

Almost all missions are done before you reload in a raven, reloading in a rattle isn't going to be an issue.

I still won't. Every last point they have made is a lie or a non issue. Even if they knock off the incredible intellectual dishonesty and the personal attacks, the fact remains that their argument is inherently worthless.

It should be close. The rattle is faster at killing stuff than the mach however the mach is 2AU faster in warp.

If you ask Kaarous, he will tell you that if you passive shield tank a Rattlesnake, you are doing it wrong.



These kids are so ridiculous with their pve-only fits that still fall far short of the ease and mission clearing capability of a mach.

--this par i dont really care about--

1 or 2 drones are far easier combat than 5. Other ships are more versatile and do higher dps with less micromanagement.